Is Jon Rahm Going to LIV and Will He Leave the PGA Tour?

Speaker: 00:00:02

Hey there and welcome to Golf Lovers

United where we discuss golf the fair way.

2

: 00:00:07

And what an episode we have today, despite

the absence of our longtime friend and the

3

: 00:00:13

Fox Mulder of the golfing world.

4

: 00:00:16

That is of course, Mr.

5

: 00:00:18

Ben at Golf Lover UK.

6

: 00:00:20

He's out traveling the world, seeking out

the world's worst golf courses, tweeting

7

: 00:00:25

about them and getting free rounds for

everyone.

8

: 00:00:28

If you're wondering what the heck I'm

talking about, go and check out at Golf

9

: 00:00:30

Dad UK

10

: 00:00:32

Instagram, but of course I'm joined as

usual with Jay at Pro Golf Critic and

11

: 00:00:37

we're going to go into that really

fascinating live team championship as won

12

: 00:00:42

by none other than Crushers and perhaps

even more interestingly we're going to

13

: 00:00:47

spend a little bit of time on the rumor

mill because only today as we record this

14

: 00:00:53

we've had something that may be pivotal,

something that may not be pivotal, but

15

: 00:00:56

that's why it's called the rumor mill so

stick around for that as we...

16

: 00:01:00

get through this episode.

17

: 00:01:01

If you enjoy the show, check out last

week's episode where we talked about SNC

18

: 00:01:05

strength and conditioning in a fantastic

interview that Ben did with personal

19

: 00:01:10

trainer and golf enthusiast Jamie Greaves.

20

: 00:01:13

Episode 10 is available now in Spotify,

Apple and of course at glugc.com.

21

: 00:01:18

And if you liked the show, let us know.

22

: 00:01:20

If you hate the show, let us know.

23

: 00:01:22

It's just as much fun over on Twitter at

glugl.

24

: 00:01:26

I'm Mark at Golf Dad UK and without

further ado, let me bring on Jay.

25

: 00:01:31

How are you my friend?

26

: 00:01:32

You've had quite the whirlwind couple of

weeks out there in Miami and be following

27

: 00:01:36

your antics over on the grammar as well.

28

: 00:01:39

So how's that been, man?

29

: 00:01:40

All right.

30

: 00:01:42

Yeah, it's been great.

31

: 00:01:44

It's been kind of a whirlwind last couple

of weeks.

32

: 00:01:47

A fair amount's happened the last couple

of weeks.

33

: 00:01:50

Sort of, you know, it's kind of funny.

34

: 00:01:52

Whenever you're on the ground at a live

event, especially me nowadays, because I

35

: 00:01:59

am getting, I'm starting to get recognized

more and more.

36

: 00:02:02

I think people see me in my four aces hat

and kind of flag me down.

37

: 00:02:09

I was taking pictures of.

38

: 00:02:10

with folks, it was actually kind of a

little bit of a surreal experience.

39

: 00:02:14

And also just having various like players,

you know, seek me out and.

40

: 00:02:20

Sort of thank me for my contributions to

the conversation about.

41

: 00:02:24

Live and professional golf and sort of the

things that I've written about all of the

42

: 00:02:29

sort of takes that I've had, like that's

it was really validating for me.

43

: 00:02:32

But, you know, this, the show is about me.

44

: 00:02:36

It's about.

45

: 00:02:37

golf, it's about professional golf, it's

about the future of professional golf.

46

: 00:02:41

So we have a lot to, uh, to talk about.

47

: 00:02:43

So yeah, it was a great time.

48

: 00:02:45

Good, good, good.

49

: 00:02:45

I also saw you got eyeballed by DJ at the

press conference you sat there.

50

: 00:02:49

I saw that, I saw that.

51

: 00:02:51

Hehehehe.

52

: 00:02:52

I did, it was surreal.

53

: 00:02:54

I mean, it was one of those things where,

so the press was sort of getting seated.

54

: 00:02:59

I decided to sit next to my colleague,

Teddy from Luckiest Golfers.

55

: 00:03:09

He was sitting front row.

56

: 00:03:12

We didn't exactly know how sort of the

seating arrangements were gonna work.

57

: 00:03:17

It just happened to be I was sitting right

in front of DJ and I had to.

58

: 00:03:20

my high flyers hat on to support Phil

because they had just come off the course

59

: 00:03:26

and high flyers obviously won their

competition against smash and literally

60

: 00:03:33

I'm not even thinking about the hat that I

have on at the time and DJs just kind of

61

: 00:03:37

eyeballing like oh yeah I have my high

flyers hat on so I take off the hat and he

62

: 00:03:46

literally like

63

: 00:03:48

30 seconds later picks the high flyers to

a plan the matches the following day,

64

: 00:03:52

which they obviously won.

65

: 00:03:53

So, um, I was back in my four aces hat the

next day, which was, um, you know,

66

: 00:04:00

obviously the aces are my, uh, team and I

obviously I'm always going to support Phil

67

: 00:04:04

in the high, high flyers, but you know, we

always have to have priorities.

68

: 00:04:08

And obviously the aces are my squad and.

69

: 00:04:11

You know, so, uh, you know, it was a

great, uh, great pressure.

70

: 00:04:15

Um,

71

: 00:04:17

It's always really interesting being a

part of the sort of press core at one of

72

: 00:04:21

these events because it's really a motley

crew of folks.

73

: 00:04:24

I mean, you have people that are sort of

golf influencers and you have people that

74

: 00:04:30

are more traditional press, like people

from golf week and golf digest and ESPN

75

: 00:04:36

and sports illustrated and all that, uh,

golf channel.

76

: 00:04:40

Um, and then you have people like, like me

that, that sort of, uh, what I like, like

77

: 00:04:44

to call new golf media.

78

: 00:04:46

where it's not something that's really a

career for me.

79

: 00:04:49

It's something where it's obviously just

something where I'm independent, but yeah,

80

: 00:04:54

it's always kind of an interesting thing

interacting with folks.

81

: 00:04:59

I know Ben has had his own very

interesting interactions with more

82

: 00:05:05

traditional golf media, as have I.

83

: 00:05:08

I've...

84

: 00:05:09

heard through various rumor mills that I

am somewhat hated in the traditional golf

85

: 00:05:14

media space, which I honestly don't mind.

86

: 00:05:16

I think I'm totally fine with that, but,

um, it is really interesting to sort of be

87

: 00:05:21

a part of that conversation.

88

: 00:05:22

So, uh, yeah, proud to be proud to be

representing golf lovers, United, uh,

89

: 00:05:27

proud to be representing myself, um, in

the expressers and, uh, just having the

90

: 00:05:33

opportunity to ask questions to, you know,

players that I've followed for.

91

: 00:05:38

years and years and years.

92

: 00:05:39

And yeah, it was really a really great

time.

93

: 00:05:42

So.

94

: 00:05:43

Good man, I was thinking in these kind of

situations, when you're doing something

95

: 00:05:48

like this, whether it's a podcast, whether

it's your writing that you do, which a lot

96

: 00:05:52

of people follow, I'm a firm believer in,

it's better to be hated than to be not

97

: 00:05:57

noticed.

98

: 00:05:58

And I always say this to people that at

work, I work in podcasting, I work in

99

: 00:06:03

audio, I work in this audio space and also

massive golf enthusiast as well, which is

100

: 00:06:08

how we ended up here.

101

: 00:06:08

But I always talk about this idea of just

not

102

: 00:06:13

being the gray person, not being the

person no one notices, not being the

103

: 00:06:16

wallflower.

104

: 00:06:17

And there's going to be people that you

piss off.

105

: 00:06:20

There's going to be people that hate you.

106

: 00:06:21

There's going to be people that love you.

107

: 00:06:22

And I think there's a fine line between

contrarian for the contrarian sake or

108

: 00:06:31

being contrarian because it needs a bit of

contrarianism to actually get out of a

109

: 00:06:36

fair and diverse range of views.

110

: 00:06:39

And I find that.

111

: 00:06:40

especially in the world today, you get so

many people that are trying to be

112

: 00:06:43

influencers that are just contrary and for

the sake of it, they're not really doing

113

: 00:06:46

anything factual.

114

: 00:06:47

They're not really doing anything that is

opinion based yet data backed.

115

: 00:06:52

You know, we know your background is an

analyst, like everything you do is backed

116

: 00:06:55

by data, which I think is amazing.

117

: 00:06:57

Um, so I love that mate.

118

: 00:06:58

And one question I'm going to ask you,

which is very, it's very, very timely.

119

: 00:07:04

Um, you mentioned the press conference.

120

: 00:07:05

I just listened to Gary Williams of five

clubs podcast with, uh, with Alan

121

: 00:07:08

Shipnook, I just listened to that just

today.

122

: 00:07:10

He's got the Live and Let Die book out,

which I think will be interesting to read.

123

: 00:07:14

Goes into quite a lot of depth on that

one.

124

: 00:07:15

One thing he did mention and he coins the

phrase new media.

125

: 00:07:19

I mean, new media is the phrase has been

around for such a long time.

126

: 00:07:21

Anyway, there is sort of just media now,

which is wild.

127

: 00:07:24

But the idea that Alan Shipnett brought to

Gary Williams was that actually.

128

: 00:07:30

There's a lot of traditional media and

even some new media potentially that

129

: 00:07:35

simply refused to go and refused to go.

130

: 00:07:39

to the live events, which I think is wild,

given the influence that live has, whether

131

: 00:07:44

you like it, whether you hate it, whether

you agree with it, disagree with it, it's

132

: 00:07:49

there.

133

: 00:07:50

It's big enough to wield power.

134

: 00:07:52

It's big enough to wield influence to the

point where even things like the BBC News

135

: 00:07:56

website just has a live section now, which

it didn't what six months ago.

136

: 00:08:00

So do you have you?

137

: 00:08:03

How have you noticed that change?

138

: 00:08:04

Have you seen more and more people turning

up at these events that maybe wouldn't

139

: 00:08:07

have gone?

140

: 00:08:07

Or is that

141

: 00:08:08

Do you think that divides still there?

142

: 00:08:09

What's the, what's that climate like on

the ground at the minute?

143

: 00:08:13

Yeah, you know, the divide is definitely

still there.

144

: 00:08:15

You know, that's something that I sort of

tapped into very early on in this whole,

145

: 00:08:21

you know, process.

146

: 00:08:22

And I was actually there sitting next to,

uh, live golf nation.

147

: 00:08:27

Shout out to, uh, to him.

148

: 00:08:28

Um, we were actually talking about the

origin of the corrupt golf media while we

149

: 00:08:33

were, while we were actually sitting next

to each other and one of these press

150

: 00:08:37

conferences.

151

: 00:08:38

And I will give him credit.

152

: 00:08:40

I'm going to publicly do this.

153

: 00:08:42

We went back into the tweets.

154

: 00:08:43

He was the first person ever to mention

corrupt golf media.

155

: 00:08:47

So shout out to live golf nation.

156

: 00:08:49

I got to give him credit.

157

: 00:08:51

But I will say that, you know, I think

there is definitely a few sort of forces

158

: 00:08:58

at play here.

159

: 00:09:00

One of the things that I've noticed and I

honestly can't blame them is the fact that

160

: 00:09:06

I do think that Liv has sort of

161

: 00:09:11

noticed folks in the golf media who have

been particularly, particularly biased and

162

: 00:09:18

particularly negative against them from

the beginning.

163

: 00:09:22

I think that has been pretty obvious and

sort of clear to sort of anybody paying

164

: 00:09:26

attention.

165

: 00:09:29

Then there's been others that have sort of

called things a little, a little more down

166

: 00:09:33

the middle.

167

: 00:09:34

I know we talked to Jerry Foltz about

that, you know, earlier in the year, where

168

: 00:09:40

we

169

: 00:09:41

talked about folks that have been a little

bit more fair to live.

170

: 00:09:44

And I think that that's really anyone that

is part of the sort of traditional golf

171

: 00:09:49

media.

172

: 00:09:50

That's kind of to me, in order to be fair,

like that's you do have to report

173

: 00:09:57

unbiasedly.

174

: 00:09:59

I think it's a really, really important

thing.

175

: 00:10:00

And I think there's not enough of that in

this sort of new age of media,

176

: 00:10:06

unfortunately.

177

: 00:10:06

So.

178

: 00:10:08

No, I do think that there are some outlets

that refuse to cover.

179

: 00:10:12

I think that there are more and more that

are starting to warm up to it, especially

180

: 00:10:18

because the golf landscape is sort of

changing, you know, seems like a month to

181

: 00:10:23

month, week to week, day to day.

182

: 00:10:26

So I think that a lot of these media folks

need to sort of get out in front of that.

183

: 00:10:31

I think this was a really important thing

because so many were predicting that like,

184

: 00:10:35

Liv wasn't even gonna be a thing in 2024

and that allegedly Jay Monahan is gonna

185

: 00:10:40

kill Liv for next year, which is obviously

not gonna happen.

186

: 00:10:44

So, and I do think that it's starting to

become a little bit more clear sort of how

187

: 00:10:51

the golf landscape is gonna look in the

next few years.

188

: 00:10:54

And I do think that it's important for

more and more outlets to sort of call live

189

: 00:11:01

fairly.

190

: 00:11:01

And I think if they do that, live is going

to be a little bit more sort of open to

191

: 00:11:07

inviting, being a little bit more open to

sort of all outlets that aren't

192

: 00:11:12

necessarily just going to go in order to

bash them.

193

: 00:11:15

Because I know for a fact, there's been

certain outlets that...

194

: 00:11:20

you know, requested credentials and they

got denied for various reasons.

195

: 00:11:24

And one of those has been, they've been

obviously biased against Liv from the

196

: 00:11:29

beginning.

197

: 00:11:29

And it's like, if I'm anyone in Liv

communications, like why would I extend

198

: 00:11:34

that olive branch to those people that I

feel like haven't been treating me fairly?

199

: 00:11:40

So I think that's totally fair.

200

: 00:11:42

I do think that things are going to, I can

see a world where in: 2024

201

: 00:11:47

sort of relax a little bit.

202

: 00:11:50

I think that obviously things are

changing.

203

: 00:11:52

I do think that there's gonna be more and

more press at the live events next year,

204

: 00:11:56

especially if some of these rumors that

we're sort of hearing and sort of

205

: 00:12:02

gathering steam sort of bear out.

206

: 00:12:03

So, you know, and I do think that the, you

know, courses and locations are gonna be

207

: 00:12:10

really interesting for next year.

208

: 00:12:12

I think there's obviously gonna be new

players, there's gonna be new talent,

209

: 00:12:15

there's gonna be new teams, there's gonna

be people sort of switching teams.

210

: 00:12:19

and I've already sort of tapped into some

of that stuff and I'm happy to sort of

211

: 00:12:22

share that with our listeners.

212

: 00:12:25

I'm not under any NDAs at this point, so

any information that I gather, anything

213

: 00:12:32

that I share with the listeners, I am

gonna preface it with, you know, this is a

214

: 00:12:38

rumor or this is what I'm hearing, or if

there's things that I know for a fact are

215

: 00:12:44

already on the horizon, I'm gonna preface

it with that.

216

: 00:12:47

So.

217

: 00:12:48

when everybody would take everything with

a grain of salt.

218

: 00:12:51

But yeah, there's a lot going on.

219

: 00:12:53

And yeah, 2024 live season is setting up

to be really, really interesting.

220

: 00:12:59

Love it.

221

: 00:12:59

Interesting stuff.

222

: 00:13:00

Yeah.

223

: 00:13:00

We'll get to that rumor mill in just a

bit.

224

: 00:13:02

I think you mentioned something there that

I'm interested in, which is the landscape

225

: 00:13:06

smoothed out a little bit.

226

: 00:13:07

I had a bit of a discussion with Ben on

Twitter, actually.

227

: 00:13:10

Was it yesterday or the day before?

228

: 00:13:12

And it's I agree.

229

: 00:13:14

I think that the landscape will smooth out

a little bit, because as you said, lives

230

: 00:13:17

not going anywhere, you know, like it or

loathe it.

231

: 00:13:20

It doesn't really matter.

232

: 00:13:20

Because you like all of the PGA, the DP

will do it.

233

: 00:13:23

They all exist.

234

: 00:13:24

And the goal is for them all to coexist

and for golf to

235

: 00:13:28

to continue to grow and to just become

better as a product, you know, the world

236

: 00:13:33

stage to become more diverse and much

better as a product overall.

237

: 00:13:38

One of the things that I really struggle

with is like the tribalism with all this,

238

: 00:13:44

you know, the tribalism of, and I think

we're all guilty of it, you know, I'm not

239

: 00:13:50

excluded, I'm not standing on high and

saying, okay, now this is you doing this,

240

: 00:13:54

I think it's everyone.

241

: 00:13:55

It's like the tribalism of

242

: 00:13:57

I am Liv, you're PGA, I am PGA, you're

Liv.

243

: 00:14:00

Like I equate it to almost like Star Wars

and Star Trek.

244

: 00:14:05

I'm a huge Star Wars, I'm a huge pop

culture guy, right?

245

: 00:14:07

If you hate the sequels, then to someone

that loves them, it's not just that's cool

246

: 00:14:12

to have an opinion.

247

: 00:14:12

It's like, I hate you, I hate your family,

and I hope your neighbors like lose their

248

: 00:14:17

job as well.

249

: 00:14:18

Yeah, it's that fricking extreme, man.

250

: 00:14:21

And I'm seeing this with Liv and PGA on

Twitter all the time.

251

: 00:14:24

It's not like...

252

: 00:14:26

But we almost do it like we can fall into

that trap.

253

: 00:14:31

Like, you know, I'll do it on Twitter.

254

: 00:14:32

You do it on Twitter.

255

: 00:14:33

Ben falls into the trap on Twitter.

256

: 00:14:34

We all do where you might tweet something

that is okay.

257

: 00:14:39

Well, tell me why you don't like it.

258

: 00:14:41

And then you get the information and

you're still like, well, you're wrong.

259

: 00:14:43

And they're not, they can't be wrong.

260

: 00:14:45

Cause opinions are opinions.

261

: 00:14:46

So it's, I don't even think there's a

question in this, but I just see that as,

262

: 00:14:53

it's a stopper, isn't it?

263

: 00:14:54

And I wonder if there's people like,

264

: 00:14:56

Certainly you and Ben that actively write

about this, that actively go out and seek

265

: 00:15:03

to help this.

266

: 00:15:04

Right, it's part of our job to go out

there and say, look, actually, let's trim

267

: 00:15:08

the edges, let's get rid of the peaks and

the troughs, and let's all just try and

268

: 00:15:12

become a little bit more centralized here

and try and just soften things a little

269

: 00:15:16

bit.

270

: 00:15:18

You know, that was something that I wrote

about and since something that I thought

271

: 00:15:24

was really kind of an important thing that

I wanted to sort of put out there right

272

: 00:15:31

after the merger happened.

273

: 00:15:33

And it's something that I feel like is

really important for me that I wanted to

274

: 00:15:39

get across.

275

: 00:15:41

You know, look, I feel like I've been

fighting a battle.

276

: 00:15:44

on social media of the past year.

277

: 00:15:46

Like it's been exhausting.

278

: 00:15:48

It's been, you know, more stressful than I

probably would have liked.

279

: 00:15:56

You know, and I have to sort of put my

beefs aside and sort of keep that sort of

280

: 00:16:03

North Star that I think is really, really

important.

281

: 00:16:06

To me that North Star has always been.

282

: 00:16:11

sort of fighting for what I feel like is

the best for a global professional golf.

283

: 00:16:17

Like that's something that I feel like is

really, really important to me.

284

: 00:16:21

And feeling like I'm, I've been sort of

thrust into the fray of sort of being a

285

: 00:16:27

part of this conversation.

286

: 00:16:30

You know, I do feel like, and you know, a

lot of people see me as obviously a voice

287

: 00:16:35

of the live fan, a voice of sort of the

anti-establishment, which I'm

288

: 00:16:41

very, very proud to sort of take that

torch.

289

: 00:16:45

I think that it describes me very, very

well because I've been sort of

290

: 00:16:49

anti-establishment pretty much my entire

life.

291

: 00:16:53

So just because I've always been a little

bit independent and it's like, it's one of

292

: 00:16:57

those things where it doesn't really

matter what you tell me, I'm gonna make my

293

: 00:17:00

own choice, my own decisions.

294

: 00:17:02

And that's a lot of the reasons why, you

know, a lot of folks have decided to.

295

: 00:17:08

you know, follow Liv and be a fan of Liv.

296

: 00:17:10

I think that there's, you know, a lot of

components to that.

297

: 00:17:13

I think people are a fan of the players

that went.

298

: 00:17:16

There's certain people that don't get me

wrong.

299

: 00:17:18

There's certain people out there that

absolutely hate the PJ tour for a variety

300

: 00:17:22

of reasons.

301

: 00:17:24

There's a lot of people that hate the

establishment, the golf establishment.

302

: 00:17:27

There's a lot of people that sort of hate

golf culture, especially here in the

303

: 00:17:29

United States.

304

: 00:17:31

All of those things sort of coalesce with

305

: 00:17:34

the sort of Advent of Live.

306

: 00:17:36

And I do think that it's created this like

cool community of folks that have sort of

307

: 00:17:43

been galvanized by like all of these

various things.

308

: 00:17:45

You know, some of them are, you know,

Trump supporters that have been sort of

309

: 00:17:52

gravitated towards live because we've

played a lot of Trump courses and Donald

310

: 00:17:55

Trump's been sort of front and center at a

lot of events.

311

: 00:17:59

So I think all of those things are in

play.

312

: 00:18:03

Um, and I will say, you know, people have

sort of gotten on me, uh, for, they feel

313

: 00:18:09

like I'm getting soft.

314

: 00:18:11

They feel like I'm sort of getting, uh,

not as angry as I was, you know, three,

315

: 00:18:16

four months, months ago, prior to the, uh,

to the merger.

316

: 00:18:20

And that's, that's totally fine.

317

: 00:18:21

Like that's their opinion.

318

: 00:18:23

No, um, except I wanted to put it out

there that like my number one thing is, is

319

: 00:18:27

really trying to reunite the golf world

and sort of, uh,

320

: 00:18:32

trying to influence it in a way that's

gonna make it as good as it can be.

321

: 00:18:38

And I do think that global golf is gonna

be the beneficiary of everything that sort

322

: 00:18:42

of happened in the last year and a half.

323

: 00:18:45

And I do think that in the next few years,

like I mentioned on the last podcast two

324

: 00:18:52

weeks ago, I do think that we're gonna be

looking at a brand new world of

325

: 00:18:56

professional golf.

326

: 00:18:57

It's gonna be more global.

327

: 00:18:59

It's gonna be more.

328

: 00:19:00

Uh, way more interesting.

329

: 00:19:02

If you ask me like regular run of the

mill, sort of 50 weeks of regular PJ tour

330

: 00:19:08

events, like as someone that's been a fan

of professional golf for 25 years, has

331

: 00:19:12

just been very monotonous.

332

: 00:19:14

And it's like, I started seeking out other

tournaments, other tours, because I was

333

: 00:19:19

like, I mean, how, how many Honda

classics, like, can I watch that are like

334

: 00:19:24

the same course, like the.

335

: 00:19:28

uh, with a deteriorating fields, uh,

quality over the course of the last 10

336

: 00:19:32

years.

337

: 00:19:33

It's like, I mean, I'd rather watch

another tournament for, um, a course that

338

: 00:19:38

I'm not as familiar with, uh, you know, so

I think that all of these things are in

339

: 00:19:44

play, I think that interest is, um, on the

rise, I think we have all of these.

340

: 00:19:49

Uh, factions that are driving interest.

341

: 00:19:53

And I think that it's really important for

the, the powers that be.

342

: 00:19:58

in the professional golf world that we

really need to sort of harness all of

343

: 00:20:04

these sort of new emotions, these new sort

of rivalries that have sort of popped up

344

: 00:20:10

between tours and players.

345

: 00:20:12

Like I think it's like very, very critical

that we actually harness this to make it,

346

: 00:20:17

to make the professional golf world as big

as it can be.

347

: 00:20:22

And you know, one of the biggest examples

that I...

348

: 00:20:28

kind of go back to earlier in the year is

the tournament on the European tour in

349

: 00:20:35

Dubai.

350

: 00:20:37

That's like, you know, it's usually like,

yeah, it's an important event on the DP

351

: 00:20:42

World Tour, but the fact that you had this

Rory Patrick Reed element to it like made

352

: 00:20:48

that tournament like 10 times more

interesting than it usually is.

353

: 00:20:52

So it's like, if you're,

354

: 00:20:56

part of the powers that be in golf and you

didn't see the interest being drummed up

355

: 00:21:02

by that and you think oh we need to

Continue moving here where we banned

356

: 00:21:07

Patrick Reed from this tournament And and

the tournament isn't nearly as interesting

357

: 00:21:12

as a as it was last year Like you really

need to like you probably need to not be

358

: 00:21:18

running professional golf in that case so

while it's important to

359

: 00:21:25

acknowledge the divisions that we have.

360

: 00:21:28

I think it's also equally important to

sort of use that to galvanize interest in

361

: 00:21:34

professional golf to make it more

interesting, to make it a better product.

362

: 00:21:38

Because I do think that that's where

things are going.

363

: 00:21:42

And I do think that that's sort of where

we're going to be in the next few years.

364

: 00:21:48

Again, we'll have to see how that all pans

out, but I'm very optimistic about that.

365

: 00:21:52

Like Vince been saying from the beginning,

I know people are starting to poo the

366

: 00:21:56

merger, but I still think that it's still

the most likely scenario.

367

: 00:22:01

Just might take a little bit more to more

time, but yeah.

368

: 00:22:05

So that's what I'm hoping for, that in the

next couple of years, we just have a more

369

: 00:22:10

interesting golf product.

370

: 00:22:12

And I really do think that that's where

things are headed.

371

: 00:22:15

And I think that

372

: 00:22:16

directly ties into the rumor mill that we

have with what's currently going on.

373

: 00:22:22

Yeah, one thing I think that Liv will

benefit from as well is time.

374

: 00:22:26

You know, I agree.

375

: 00:22:27

I'm a huge fan of.

376

: 00:22:30

The PGA Tour's legacy, and it's I will

often watch.

377

: 00:22:36

Well, I'm in the UK Sunday nights, the

golf is on, generally speaking, having

378

: 00:22:43

said that.

379

: 00:22:45

The same format gets tiresome.

380

: 00:22:46

It used to be a case I would sit down and

I would watch the golf.

381

: 00:22:49

Now the golf is on.

382

: 00:22:51

And I'm tinkering, I'm doing something,

I'm practicing my putting, I'm doom

383

: 00:22:57

scrolling on the old cell phone or

whatever.

384

: 00:22:59

And I have to admit that the, let's call

them elevated events, whether that is a

385

: 00:23:08

genuine elevated event as we're seeing

them now become, or whether that's like an

386

: 00:23:11

elevated event in my mind.

387

: 00:23:12

So that might be something like the waste

management, where it's like, OK, every

388

: 00:23:17

year I tune in.

389

: 00:23:18

Almost like the majors, you tune in.

390

: 00:23:20

You don't really care that it's the same

format as every year because it's a major,

391

: 00:23:25

it's got legacy, it's interesting there

will be storylines that come out of it.

392

: 00:23:28

But week by week, meh, you're right.

393

: 00:23:32

There's not that much to see.

394

: 00:23:33

And I think a lot of that for me as well

is that the PGA Tour is the most prevalent

395

: 00:23:37

tour.

396

: 00:23:38

It's the same golf.

397

: 00:23:39

If we look at the Ryder Cup and our

discussion about the Ryder Cup, very often

398

: 00:23:42

the DP World Tour and even

399

: 00:23:44

I think it's like the the the the Justin

Rose ladies series on Sky Sports that

400

: 00:23:48

comes on on a Tuesday at whatever time or

whatever it is.

401

: 00:23:51

They're often more interesting because

it's not just long drive, who can get it

402

: 00:23:55

closest with a wedge.

403

: 00:23:56

You know, and it's not it's not just pin

seeking all the time.

404

: 00:24:00

And so that it's become less interesting

because of that you've took a lot of the

405

: 00:24:05

big I don't want to change makers, but you

know, we're out of the tiger era now.

406

: 00:24:10

There aren't there are storylines.

407

: 00:24:12

but they all seem quite individualized

now.

408

: 00:24:14

It's the story of Jordan coming back.

409

: 00:24:16

It's a story of Ricky's tumultuous season.

410

: 00:24:18

It's a story of Justin doing such and

such.

411

: 00:24:20

It's a story of Bryson going away through

COVID, bulking up and hitting mega

412

: 00:24:24

distances and then coming back, trimming

down, still hitting the distances, doing

413

: 00:24:28

the long drive contest and so on.

414

: 00:24:30

There's not the storylines out there, but

what I would say as well is, like I'm

415

: 00:24:36

interested in Liv, but I'm not like you

guys.

416

: 00:24:38

And I would equate this to like tech in

that

417

: 00:24:42

bleeding edge adopters of everything.

418

: 00:24:45

And you are bleeding edge adopter.

419

: 00:24:48

I'm an early adopter.

420

: 00:24:49

I love it.

421

: 00:24:50

I'm really interested.

422

: 00:24:50

I've been interested in Liv from day one.

423

: 00:24:52

And when it was the premier golf league

before that, I was interested in the

424

: 00:24:55

story.

425

: 00:24:55

I was interested in seeing what was going

on.

426

: 00:24:57

I was interested in the Phil story and

whatever else, you know, how he was

427

: 00:25:01

maneuvering.

428

: 00:25:03

The thing that I'm yet to get into as

deeply as you guys is the storylines on

429

: 00:25:09

Liv.

430

: 00:25:10

And I think...

431

: 00:25:11

Yes.

432

: 00:25:11

That's what it will benefit from in terms

of timing and legacy is that three years

433

: 00:25:16

in rivalries will have started to happen.

434

: 00:25:19

Teams will have, you know, the Man City,

Man United, soccer, football rivalry

435

: 00:25:24

didn't happen day one.

436

: 00:25:26

It took a hundred years, you know, so it's

I think that's the thing for me that is

437

: 00:25:30

still missing a little bit from Liv.

438

: 00:25:32

That's not to poo poo the format.

439

: 00:25:33

It's just that I care about Liv as much as

I care about the PGA Tour.

440

: 00:25:38

And I want to.

441

: 00:25:42

elevate the caring of all of these things

by being more interested in the

442

: 00:25:47

storylines.

443

: 00:25:48

Unless you're as deeply embedded as you

are, the storylines for the average viewer

444

: 00:25:52

like me aren't quite there yet because

they're just not, they're just not deep

445

: 00:25:56

enough.

446

: 00:25:56

Yeah.

447

: 00:25:57

I mean, like the worst thing is probably

like Bryson and Brooks making up like

448

: 00:26:02

screw that like be enemies, at least do

the first year as enemies.

449

: 00:26:06

Like you, you, you made up a year too

early guys, you know.

450

: 00:26:12

No, that's those are all fair, fair

points.

451

: 00:26:15

I definitely think that live is gonna

benefit from time.

452

: 00:26:19

And I think that honestly, some of these

rivalries, these natural rivalries that

453

: 00:26:24

have come out of this schism the last

couple years, like people are very much

454

: 00:26:29

living in the present, like there is also

some other popular podcasts that I follow

455

: 00:26:34

that they're like, oh, they're like, so

upset that the landscape is fractured.

456

: 00:26:39

But it's

457

: 00:26:40

You guys need to see this is all a chess

game.

458

: 00:26:43

Like you have to see a few steps ahead

here.

459

: 00:26:46

Like, yes, the game does seem very, very

fractured now, but it's like that fracture

460

: 00:26:52

some, some time.

461

: 00:26:53

And this is the sort of anatomy analogy

that I make.

462

: 00:26:56

Like, you know, sometimes you need to

break a bone in order to make it stronger.

463

: 00:27:02

So that's where I feel like we are in golf

where we've had these various fractures

464

: 00:27:07

that like, if you

465

: 00:27:10

take some of the animosity that's sort of

been galvanized over the past few months,

466

: 00:27:18

a couple of years, like, and you could

sort of channel that into certain events.

467

: 00:27:25

I'm going to run through a scenario for

you for you guys just to sort of try to

468

: 00:27:29

crystallize this a little bit more.

469

: 00:27:31

So let's say for our for argument's sake,

John Rom.

470

: 00:27:38

He does decide to go to live in 2024.

471

: 00:27:42

And he decides to become part of this all

Spanish fireballs team that has a home at

472

: 00:27:52

Valderrama in Spain.

473

: 00:27:55

Let's say that is sort of galvanized over

the next couple of years where it's Ram,

474

: 00:28:00

it's Sergio, it's Eugenio Chikara and it's

David Puj.

475

: 00:28:06

And by the way, David Pooj going to the

fireballs, I've been told is a done deal.

476

: 00:28:11

So part of this has already been sort of

galvanized.

477

: 00:28:17

So let's just say that happens.

478

: 00:28:21

There's certainly going to be a little bit

of animosity from the PJ tour contingent

479

: 00:28:26

that, oh, Rom is a turncoat.

480

: 00:28:29

Like he is, you know, we don't we don't

like him anymore.

481

: 00:28:33

there's gonna be stuff in the press,

there's gonna be fallout from that 100%.

482

: 00:28:38

Now from John Rahm's perspective, he's

able to galvanize this all Spanish team

483

: 00:28:45

that if you open up the doors to other

events, like in this global golf series

484

: 00:28:51

that we've been sort of touting for the

last, probably month or so, what if he...

485

: 00:28:57

that he's able to take that team and like

travel to some of these, these legacy

486

: 00:29:02

events, like the waste management, Phoenix

open is that fire?

487

: 00:29:06

Is that fireballs team going to get, get

booed?

488

: 00:29:08

I know Sergio isn't very well liked in the

United States.

489

: 00:29:12

If he's able to convince John around the

coma, come over to his team, that

490

: 00:29:17

animosity is going to be even higher than

what it was before.

491

: 00:29:21

And then you can start transitioning that

over to the writer cup too, where I've

492

: 00:29:25

proposed that I.

493

: 00:29:27

felt like a future Ryder Cup team could

include all four of those guys with maybe

494

: 00:29:33

Sergio being a captain with Rom leading

the charge with push and Chikara being

495

: 00:29:39

like a really formidable four ball team.

496

: 00:29:42

Like, I do think that that's possible.

497

: 00:29:44

Like all of a sudden, the public interest

in golf, you're able to capture some of

498

: 00:29:50

that energy that maybe comes from these.

499

: 00:29:54

this team becoming a little bit more of a

sort of traveling.

500

: 00:29:57

I don't want to call it traveling circus,

but it is in some ways where you're going

501

: 00:30:01

to these various parts of the world.

502

: 00:30:03

Now you have a clear identity with this

team.

503

: 00:30:08

There's emotion around it.

504

: 00:30:10

There's, there will be a huge amount of

sort of Spanish pride with this particular

505

: 00:30:14

team.

506

: 00:30:15

So if you're traveling to other parts of

Europe,

507

: 00:30:18

You're traveling to the UK.

508

: 00:30:19

I'm really interested to see a team like

fireballs.

509

: 00:30:21

Like what's the reception going to going

to be with a John Rommel on the team.

510

: 00:30:24

So, um, I think that all of these things

could lead to, uh, sort of tapping into

511

: 00:30:32

that sort of pop culture element of sort

of casual fans that maybe you could bring

512

: 00:30:37

into the game a little bit more than what

they are now.

513

: 00:30:41

Those are the things people need to look

to in the future in two, three years that

514

: 00:30:45

we could potentially have.

515

: 00:30:47

So much we could potentially have more

interest in professional golf than we've

516

: 00:30:51

ever, ever had.

517

: 00:30:53

And maybe all of this culminates in the

: 2025

518

: 00:30:59

Maybe it culminates a couple of years

later at a dare manner.

519

: 00:31:04

I think that this everything in the

landscape just, it makes things so much

520

: 00:31:08

more interesting, all the possibilities

out there.

521

: 00:31:12

So if you're a

522

: 00:31:16

that aside, look, your traditional events

are probably still going to be around.

523

: 00:31:20

For the most part, I think there are going

to be some casualties moving forward.

524

: 00:31:25

Except looking at the long term health of

the game, like in a few years, this could

525

: 00:31:30

be exactly what golf needs to get a

younger audience, to get more of an

526

: 00:31:34

audience, to get more of a global

audience.

527

: 00:31:38

I think that all these things are in play

to make.

528

: 00:31:41

professional golf way more interesting and

bigger than it's ever been before.

529

: 00:31:44

So I do think that these things do take a

little bit of time to sort of formalize

530

: 00:31:50

things and sort of develop more rivalries

and seeing what happens with the mergers,

531

: 00:31:55

seeing what happens with the potential

global golf landscape changing in the next

532

: 00:31:59

few years.

533

: 00:32:00

All of this is in play.

534

: 00:32:02

Personally, I'm really, really excited to

see how this.

535

: 00:32:05

plays out over the next few years.

536

: 00:32:07

Like I've never been more excited about

the feature of professional golf than I am

537

: 00:32:11

now.

538

: 00:32:11

And you could probably hear it in my

voice.

539

: 00:32:13

So this is something that I'm super

passionate about.

540

: 00:32:16

I think it's something that everybody

needs to sort of think about ways that

541

: 00:32:22

like the golf world can improve from all

this rather than being negative.

542

: 00:32:26

Because I know that most golf fans have

this.

543

: 00:32:30

Maybe it's something in our DNA just with

our golf games, just being generally

544

: 00:32:33

negative about anything related to golf.

545

: 00:32:37

If we hit a bad shot, we're really, really

negative about it.

546

: 00:32:40

I want people to try to flip that and try

to be optimistic about what the future

547

: 00:32:45

professional golf could look like, because

I do think that we're headed into some

548

: 00:32:49

very, very exciting times here.

549

: 00:32:51

I think the growth of the game with a

different audience, I think is very, very

550

: 00:32:54

important.

551

: 00:32:55

And I love the excitement, the enthusiasm,

because I see so many people getting into

552

: 00:33:00

golf.

553

: 00:33:00

I'm reasonably tapped into the indoor

virtual space in the UK and a little bit

554

: 00:33:06

in the US as well, mainly just through

building a sim.

555

: 00:33:09

And then my toxic trait is that every time

I do, if I do something I'm interested in,

556

: 00:33:12

I'm gonna build a business and do this for

reals.

557

: 00:33:16

So now I'm like looking for a space to

build a fucking Simba.

558

: 00:33:18

You know, I want to put like six spaces in

there, get a bar and whatever.

559

: 00:33:22

So I'm actually looking for units for that

right now.

560

: 00:33:25

But the point that I'm getting at is that

a lot of my friends, you know, you've got

561

: 00:33:29

people that have played golf with me for

20 or 30 years.

562

: 00:33:32

30 years, which is a shock.

563

: 00:33:34

I know looking at me, you wouldn't think

so, Jay, but 30 years hitting a five iron

564

: 00:33:38

around a field.

565

: 00:33:39

And then I've got friends that are just

getting into it.

566

: 00:33:42

Right?

567

: 00:33:43

And...

568

: 00:33:45

They started out by going on a Muni in

their work clothes and some with some

569

: 00:33:50

borrowed clubs.

570

: 00:33:51

They got addicted to it.

571

: 00:33:53

They bought their own clubs.

572

: 00:33:54

They They revere going out on a course.

573

: 00:34:00

No more than they revere going down to an

indoor simulator with a beer and getting

574

: 00:34:06

the pizza and hitting some balls there as

well.

575

: 00:34:09

It's the eggs to them golf is golf and

sure they turn up their respect.

576

: 00:34:14

replace their divots, they fix their pitch

marks, they wear the right clothes, they

577

: 00:34:19

wear the joggers, they wear the hoodies,

this is a golf hoodie I've got on.

578

: 00:34:23

And they, so my point is that that

generation of people getting into this now

579

: 00:34:32

don't necessarily want to join a club like

my club that I'm at right now, lovely

580

: 00:34:36

club, amazing club, it's in a Mackenzie

design course, big Heathland place,

581

: 00:34:41

really, really outstanding course.

582

: 00:34:43

You got to get a frigging referral.

583

: 00:34:44

You got to go on the boards for two weeks.

584

: 00:34:46

I got told off for wearing this very golf

hoodie at the course when I bought it from

585

: 00:34:55

their pro shop.

586

: 00:34:56

And it was by a member, Grant, and I just

said, oh, listen, dude, I got it from the

587

: 00:35:00

actual pro shop.

588

: 00:35:01

This is ridiculous.

589

: 00:35:02

Go away.

590

: 00:35:06

But the guys that you're talking about and

the

591

: 00:35:10

The boys, the girls that are coming up

through and wanting to get into golf.

592

: 00:35:13

To them, there is no distinction.

593

: 00:35:14

It's golf is golf.

594

: 00:35:16

If you play it indoors, cause it's

raining, it's virtual golf.

595

: 00:35:19

Live is interesting to them.

596

: 00:35:21

The PGA, the heritage of, you know, me

telling my daughter about Tiger winning

597

: 00:35:25

the masters, the 97, you know, that's

great.

598

: 00:35:28

All it translates to is I'm watching the

masters.

599

: 00:35:31

I know about this, but I'm not beholden to

the PGA.

600

: 00:35:35

So I think the point that I'm getting at

is that everything is generational and

601

: 00:35:38

everything.

602

: 00:35:39

Yes.

603

: 00:35:40

You know, look what Tiger did for the

game.

604

: 00:35:41

Look what the big three did for the game,

you know, a generation before that or two

605

: 00:35:45

before that.

606

: 00:35:46

This is just another inflection point,

isn't it?

607

: 00:35:48

You know, we all benefit if we get it

right.

608

: 00:35:51

Exactly.

609

: 00:35:52

People think that because you have new

things, all this, this legacy stuff goes

610

: 00:35:56

away and that's totally not the case.

611

: 00:35:58

Like I think that it, um, if anything, if

you are continuously growing the game and

612

: 00:36:03

sort of having these other leagues, other

things that are peaking interests, like

613

: 00:36:08

it's only enhancing the legacy of those

great players, like, you know, looking

614

: 00:36:13

ahead.

615

: 00:36:14

I had sort of 20, 30 years, like seeing

someone like, like Tigers won 82 PGA tour

616

: 00:36:19

events, like no one's ever going to come

close to that.

617

: 00:36:22

So, and I think that that's only going to

increase his legacy.

618

: 00:36:26

No one's ever, ever going to win 82

worldwide events, whether they're live PGA

619

: 00:36:32

tour, DP world tour is not going to

happen.

620

: 00:36:34

His legacy is going to elevate

substantially because I do think that

621

: 00:36:39

we're having more competition.

622

: 00:36:40

We're having more as you grow golf.

623

: 00:36:44

you're not going to have this huge gap of

talent.

624

: 00:36:46

Like you're going to have everybody who's

involved is going to be at a very, they're

625

: 00:36:51

going to be at a higher level in the

future than they are now, because when you

626

: 00:36:55

have more people participating in golf,

you're going to have more golfers, you're

627

: 00:37:00

going to have more top golfers, and that

very, very top is only going to continue

628

: 00:37:04

to get better.

629

: 00:37:05

So it's going to be very, very hard to

sort of separate yourself at that elite

630

: 00:37:10

level.

631

: 00:37:11

And I think that

632

: 00:37:12

Uh, you know, having all of these sort of

new things like, like live and then TGL is

633

: 00:37:17

another one that look, I've talked to a

lot of live fans.

634

: 00:37:21

I know people are down on the TGL for a

variety of reasons.

635

: 00:37:26

Number one being just how.

636

: 00:37:29

Team golf has been totally sort of poo

pooed by PGA tour, traditionalists and

637

: 00:37:34

all, um, all that.

638

: 00:37:36

And I do think that honestly, some of

those seeds that they planted anti-live

639

: 00:37:39

seeds are going to.

640

: 00:37:41

uh, germinate against TGL too.

641

: 00:37:43

So I do think they're going to have more

headwinds than they probably should.

642

: 00:37:48

But it's like, look, this is the

environment you created to try to defend

643

: 00:37:53

your product that was a losing battle from

the beginning.

644

: 00:37:57

Anybody with a brain saw that this was not

going to end well for that particular

645

: 00:38:03

argument.

646

: 00:38:03

It just wasn't.

647

: 00:38:04

So, you know, I do think that, um, all of

these things, new things are only going to

648

: 00:38:10

ink.

649

: 00:38:12

the sort of global footprint of golf.

650

: 00:38:14

Like I love simulator golf.

651

: 00:38:16

Like honestly, I like simulator golf maybe

even more than like getting out on a

652

: 00:38:22

regular golf course because I just play

way better in a simulator.

653

: 00:38:25

I just do.

654

: 00:38:25

Like I, my score, you would be shocked at

how good some of my scores are in the

655

: 00:38:31

simulator where I would shoot.

656

: 00:38:35

I don't want to toot my own horn here, but

on the front night at San Andrews, I shot

657

: 00:38:39

28 at Torrey Pines from the very, very

back tees.

658

: 00:38:44

I shot six 63.

659

: 00:38:46

Guess what?

660

: 00:38:47

I'm not doing that in real life.

661

: 00:38:49

So, um, no, but I, I do think that I've

known enough people that have played

662

: 00:38:56

simulator golf.

663

: 00:38:57

And like I grew up kind of being a video

game junkie when I was a kid and

664

: 00:39:05

You know, being able to sort of combine

those two worlds of video games and golf,

665

: 00:39:10

like two of the things that I grew up sort

of loving and sort of gravitating to, like

666

: 00:39:14

I know that like a lot of these kids that

are not part of these fancy clubs and

667

: 00:39:19

country clubs, like they're just regular

kids that maybe get on a public golf

668

: 00:39:24

course a few times a year.

669

: 00:39:25

Like if you do have these,

670

: 00:39:28

Simulators are a little bit more

accessible where they could go there with

671

: 00:39:31

their friends It's like an after-school

thing like I could see there.

672

: 00:39:35

They're being clubs at schools that are

like simulator golf clubs like that's

673

: 00:39:42

Certainly looking into the future five ten

years.

674

: 00:39:44

I 100% think that that's on the table I

think that there's so many of these places

675

: 00:39:49

that are currently being constructed I

think that TGL is

676

: 00:39:53

going to tap into that.

677

: 00:39:55

And I think it helps them substantially

that they're gonna be on these very big

678

: 00:40:01

networks here in the United States that, I

wish that sort of Liv could sort of tap

679

: 00:40:08

into a little bit more, because I think

that the more exposure it gets on those

680

: 00:40:13

more traditional networks, the more

interest is gonna be galvanized.

681

: 00:40:18

And look, I love CW.

682

: 00:40:21

I have been...

683

: 00:40:23

touting them ever since they started

broadcasting live.

684

: 00:40:28

But I will say, it's not an ideal

situation.

685

: 00:40:32

Like you want to be able to broadcast

every event live, no matter what time of

686

: 00:40:37

day it's on.

687

: 00:40:39

Having this sort of tape delay thing for

the international events, I just, I don't

688

: 00:40:44

see that as being a viable solution for

the longterm.

689

: 00:40:48

Like I really do think that you have to

sort of figure something else out.

690

: 00:40:51

Which I think that they,

691

: 00:40:54

They will, I've already sort of been

tapped into some of the things going on at

692

: 00:40:58

Liv talking to various executives when I

was boots on the ground in Miami.

693

: 00:41:03

They are still, one of the great analogies

one of the executives told me was that,

694

: 00:41:11

you know, Liv has been like a, they have

been building the airplane while flying it

695

: 00:41:17

the last year and a half.

696

: 00:41:19

Like they're not even close to tapping

into their full potential.

697

: 00:41:23

They've had so many headwinds the last

year and a half, mostly caused by the PJ

698

: 00:41:28

tour and its partners.

699

: 00:41:31

Um, I wrote a whole piece on, on that.

700

: 00:41:34

It's been a running theme in some of our

writing that if you want to go to a

701

: 00:41:38

Twitter profile and check, uh, check it

out, feel free.

702

: 00:41:41

You know, they've had so many headwinds

now that those things are being cleared

703

: 00:41:46

out.

704

: 00:41:46

All these barriers are being cleared out.

705

: 00:41:49

like now they can really start to

supercharge the tour to sort of galvanize

706

: 00:41:54

interest.

707

: 00:41:54

And I think a lot of this negativity is

going to go away as we just go through

708

: 00:42:01

time.

709

: 00:42:01

Like I think that that's 100% the case and

it's gonna happen in the next couple of

710

: 00:42:07

years.

711

: 00:42:07

So again, we'll have to see how things pan

out.

712

: 00:42:12

But I do think that it's part of the

reason why I also wrote

713

: 00:42:17

a piece, like even if there is a part of

professional golf you don't like, if you

714

: 00:42:22

don't like Liv, you don't like the TGL,

you don't like the PJ tour, that's totally

715

: 00:42:25

fine.

716

: 00:42:27

You just can't be super negative about it

that's going to maybe turn somebody else

717

: 00:42:33

off to it that may potentially like it

because you just don't want to be a

718

: 00:42:37

barrier.

719

: 00:42:37

If we can all agree that we want global

golf to be as healthy and big as it can

720

: 00:42:46

be.

721

: 00:42:47

Part of that is you just don't want to be

a barrier to entry for other people.

722

: 00:42:53

So, because there's so many entry points

now to golf and it's only gonna increase.

723

: 00:43:01

So you being negative about any part of

that isn't helping things, it's just not.

724

: 00:43:07

So I just want everybody to keep that in

mind as we continue to move forward.

725

: 00:43:10

I think that's a really important thing

that people need to keep in mind.

726

: 00:43:14

And it's something that I've been keeping

in mind for the last...

727

: 00:43:17

three, four months, like I've been trying

my best not to be negative about the PJ

728

: 00:43:21

tour.

729

: 00:43:21

I really have.

730

: 00:43:23

I fail a lot of those times because I am

so frustrated by some of the things that

731

: 00:43:28

the PJ tour has done, some of the things

that they continue to do, some of the

732

: 00:43:33

lies, some of the just things that really,

really grind my gears.

733

: 00:43:39

So, and I think some of that's going to be

resolved when new leadership comes in and

734

: 00:43:44

sort of has a whole

735

: 00:43:47

sort of vibe, it's a little bit more, it

just clearing out some of this culture

736

: 00:43:54

that's just rotten at the PJ Tour, I think

is gonna be the healthiest thing for a

737

: 00:43:59

global golf as a whole.

738

: 00:44:01

So hopefully that's gonna be, you know,

one of those barriers that gets removed

739

: 00:44:06

and in the future we're gonna be living in

a much, much better golf.

740

: 00:44:11

fingers crossed, and I'm sure it will

shake out.

741

: 00:44:13

I think 2024 will be a bit of a pivotal

year.

742

: 00:44:15

I think now that, as you said, now that

some of the live, it's funny that you look

743

: 00:44:21

at the time of like when the premier golf

league disappeared or the notion of it

744

: 00:44:24

disappeared, and then suddenly how quick

live came about, there's no surprise that

745

: 00:44:27

they've been flying the plane while

building it.

746

: 00:44:29

That's absolutely no surprise.

747

: 00:44:31

And as someone that, to equate this to

like the startup world, been in that for a

748

: 00:44:37

long time, and that's what you do.

749

: 00:44:39

And if you've got the backing of a fund of

that size, you can do that at a much

750

: 00:44:45

greater scale, but you still face teething

problems.

751

: 00:44:47

It's just they're way more public.

752

: 00:44:49

And I think we've seen that.

753

: 00:44:50

And I think that's a really useful mindset

to keep, is that actually this is almost

754

: 00:44:59

like an alpha.

755

: 00:45:00

Now let's get to beta.

756

: 00:45:02

And then we'll see where the product goes.

757

: 00:45:04

Let's finish up on the roomamil.

758

: 00:45:07

My friend, we've all seen it today as

we're recording.

759

: 00:45:09

I would like to personally thank John Rahm

for saving this until the day that we

760

: 00:45:16

record.

761

: 00:45:17

It's a real pleasure.

762

: 00:45:18

So thank you, John.

763

: 00:45:20

He's pulled out of, it really is, it

really is, man.

764

: 00:45:23

So he's pulled out of the TGL.

765

: 00:45:25

We've seen some of the teams get

galvanized a little bit.

766

: 00:45:28

There's still a couple more to be

announced.

767

: 00:45:29

There's one more team to be announced, and

then the full rosters of the teams.

768

: 00:45:33

We know JT has been placed.

769

: 00:45:36

Um, we've seen Rory and Terrell today has

been announced at being at Boston and, uh,

770

: 00:45:41

you know, he's starting to take shape now,

but one notable absence now then is John

771

: 00:45:46

Ram.

772

: 00:45:46

Now I'm not going to lie to you.

773

: 00:45:48

Ben was tweeting this, go and check it out

at Gulf of the UK.

774

: 00:45:50

We've seen he was implying he's going to

live and I'm not going to lie, mate.

775

: 00:45:54

I tweeted him and I said, no chance, no

chance.

776

: 00:45:57

Um, and yeah, I was, I could be way wrong.

777

: 00:46:01

I was wrong about cam Smith.

778

: 00:46:03

Like one of my guys, Kieran was like, he

was, he's going.

779

: 00:46:05

I'm like,

780

: 00:46:06

not going, man, that's bullshit.

781

: 00:46:08

And then he went, but my, so I read into

this, right?

782

: 00:46:12

I basically read into this, that, you

know, we don't have Scheffler in the TGL.

783

: 00:46:17

If you, yeah, Ram's pulled out, but no

one's saying, well, Scheffler is going to

784

: 00:46:22

live because he's not on the TGL.

785

: 00:46:25

So that was, that was my initial logic.

786

: 00:46:26

And then I started to think about it a bit

more.

787

: 00:46:28

And I just thought, well, Ram's got a kid.

788

: 00:46:30

I've, I've got a kid that's like two years

old.

789

: 00:46:33

I get the whole

790

: 00:46:34

You've got to be a bit close to home.

791

: 00:46:36

If you play in the weekend, you've got

some tournaments to defend.

792

: 00:46:39

You're in the peak of the career where you

just come off the back of a Masters win.

793

: 00:46:43

You are going to probably want to prepare

for a year of majors.

794

: 00:46:48

A little bit like Vic, in my opinion,

Hovland, you know.

795

: 00:46:52

You know, I just read that as it might be

just too much of a commitment.

796

: 00:46:55

I could be completely wrong.

797

: 00:46:58

And you have got way more insight than me.

798

: 00:47:00

So what's your take on this, man?

799

: 00:47:05

Yeah.

800

: 00:47:06

So there's been a lot going on with John

Rahms, a lot going on with, with a few

801

: 00:47:09

players that I've heard.

802

: 00:47:11

And look, a lot of this is speculation,

but a lot of this is, look, people that

803

: 00:47:17

are very tied into these situations that

feel very, very confident that John Rahm

804

: 00:47:23

is going to live.

805

: 00:47:25

Now, I don't feel necessarily that

confident.

806

: 00:47:29

Um, although look, I know the, these

sources and they're pretty like,

807

: 00:47:33

They're pretty strong.

808

: 00:47:35

So, so me, what I'm doing is I'm taking

all the information that I have.

809

: 00:47:41

I'm looking at John Rom statements, what

he said before.

810

: 00:47:44

I'm also looking at the future of golf.

811

: 00:47:47

Like we've already talked about with this

potential global series of events and sort

812

: 00:47:52

of all these things that are potentially

out there in the ether that are going to

813

: 00:47:55

happen in golf, John Rom obviously won the

masters.

814

: 00:48:00

He's got his major exemptions.

815

: 00:48:02

The next.

816

: 00:48:03

Five years minimum, he's in the Masters

for life.

817

: 00:48:07

If I'm John Rahm and I am sort of tied

into what the future of golf is going to

818

: 00:48:13

be, which I didn't know six months ago

when he made all these statements about

819

: 00:48:17

Liv and sort of, I wouldn't call them

necessarily negative statements, but they

820

: 00:48:21

were basically saying all the reasons why

it wasn't gonna go.

821

: 00:48:25

Knowing what the future of professional

golf is going to potentially look like,

822

: 00:48:30

there is a lot of things that have changed

in a few months time that are gonna

823

: 00:48:34

continue to.

824

: 00:48:36

So I can see a scenario where John Rahm

sees that and is like, hmm, maybe it

825

: 00:48:44

behooves me to get a little bit more

serious about potentially going to live

826

: 00:48:48

because I know he's got surgery when his

ear, I know he's got fill in his ear.

827

: 00:48:52

He's got a lot of guys at live that are in

his ear 24 seven about the stuff, may not

828

: 00:48:58

24 seven, but very, very frequently that

are constantly feeding him.

829

: 00:49:04

information and John Rahm is also really

big in a global golf.

830

: 00:49:09

Like he loves going home to Spain.

831

: 00:49:11

He loves sort of participating in sort of

Spanish golf.

832

: 00:49:16

Does he really love being on the PJ tour?

833

: 00:49:18

I don't think that he does like I feel

like he enjoys particular events.

834

: 00:49:23

Just like a lot of the guys that live talk

about Bryson.

835

: 00:49:27

We talked about Brooks.

836

: 00:49:28

We talked about Phil.

837

: 00:49:29

Talked about a variety of guys that still

love some of those legacy PJ Torvats.

838

: 00:49:35

Except maybe we are looking at a future

golf where you're still able to play all

839

: 00:49:39

of those legacy events that you love,

you're still able to play all the majors.

840

: 00:49:44

And in addition to that, you're playing in

this global golf series that includes live

841

: 00:49:49

events too.

842

: 00:49:51

So if you're seeing all of that, and you

and you realize, oh, you know, I can

843

: 00:49:57

still do everything that I want to do in

golf.

844

: 00:49:59

I could still play in the waste

management.

845

: 00:50:01

I could still play in various PJ to I

could still play in Riviera.

846

: 00:50:06

All those places that I love to play.

847

: 00:50:09

And you're going to tell me that I'm going

to be three hundred million dollars

848

: 00:50:11

richer.

849

: 00:50:13

And you're telling me that I can also go

home to Valderrama.

850

: 00:50:17

That's going to be like my home course for

my team.

851

: 00:50:22

And I get to play the Spanish Open and I'm

going to make a ton more money on top of

852

: 00:50:26

it.

853

: 00:50:27

You would be silly to just say, oh no,

forget all the, forget everything that

854

: 00:50:34

you're telling me.

855

: 00:50:34

Like I'm not even gonna consider it.

856

: 00:50:37

If I'm a smart man and I know John Rahm is

very, very astute, I'm listening to all

857

: 00:50:43

this and my interest is piqued.

858

: 00:50:45

So again, none of this is guaranteeing

it's gonna happen.

859

: 00:50:50

I'm just sort of laying the sort of

groundwork for everybody here about what's

860

: 00:50:53

going on in golf.

861

: 00:50:55

John Rahm sees all this.

862

: 00:50:57

He's tied into all the right people.

863

: 00:50:59

The people that I've talked to that are

pretty convinced that he's going are very

864

: 00:51:04

tied into the golf agency world, which is

a very, very important thing.

865

: 00:51:10

So we'll have to see how John Rahm pans

out the next few months.

866

: 00:51:19

I'm still on the fence.

867

: 00:51:20

We'll have to see how things actually play

out, but.

868

: 00:51:23

I do have a couple other names for the

rumor mill for you guys that are a little

869

: 00:51:27

bit more, I'd probably say they're closer

to happening than not.

870

: 00:51:32

One of those names that I have sort of

thrown out on Twitter recently has been

871

: 00:51:37

Tony Finau.

872

: 00:51:39

Now, did you?

873

: 00:51:42

Mm-hmm.

874

: 00:51:43

literally today.

875

: 00:51:43

Yeah, it's, that's interesting.

876

: 00:51:48

he's an interesting case.

877

: 00:51:50

And again, let me sort of lay the

groundwork for people here.

878

: 00:51:53

Tony Finau, obviously, is a very popular

player on the PJ tour.

879

: 00:51:58

He's made a fair amount of money.

880

: 00:51:59

Like he's got really, really good

endorsement deals, all that stuff, Nike,

881

: 00:52:04

Ping and others.

882

: 00:52:07

One of the things that people need to look

at, and you can Google this, you can look

883

: 00:52:12

it up.

884

: 00:52:13

Uh, he is currently in some legal matters

with former agents and managers that are

885

: 00:52:22

looking for money from him, uh, you know,

basically because he decided to sign it

886

: 00:52:31

with, with another agent, another

management, and they're looking for, um,

887

: 00:52:36

uh, basically restitution from him that it

sounds like the case is not going to go

888

: 00:52:40

his way.

889

: 00:52:41

So he's looking at potentially shelling

out millions of dollars out of his own

890

: 00:52:44

pocket.

891

: 00:52:46

Now, if I'm Tony Fino and I'm like, man,

I've got this lawsuit, but I also have

892

: 00:52:51

this potential option where I can get 40,

$50 million from Liv.

893

: 00:52:59

Like I gotta look into that.

894

: 00:53:00

Like if I am a family man and I care about

the future of my family, like why would

895

: 00:53:06

you not look at that?

896

: 00:53:07

Like the...

897

: 00:53:09

And I know this for a fact with Tony, his

family and his family situation is more

898

: 00:53:14

important to him than anything.

899

: 00:53:16

It's more important than playing in

majors.

900

: 00:53:18

It's more important than his world

ranking.

901

: 00:53:20

It's more important than his legacy on the

PGA Tour.

902

: 00:53:24

None of that stuff matters more than his

family does and that sort of family

903

: 00:53:27

situation.

904

: 00:53:28

So if I have that option to potentially go

to live and make some life-changing money,

905

: 00:53:35

which he could still do very well for

himself on the PGA Tour,

906

: 00:53:41

The thing that I have learned a little bit

more about golfers contracts with their

907

: 00:53:46

agents is that a lot of their on the

course earnings, they're not paying that

908

: 00:53:51

to their agents and managers.

909

: 00:53:53

The agents and managers are basically

getting zero percent of that money, except

910

: 00:53:59

they're getting a larger percentage of off

course endorsements and things like that.

911

: 00:54:05

Now, if you go to live, a lot of those

endorsements kind of go out the window.

912

: 00:54:10

And you're looking at entirely on course

earnings that he gets to basically keep

913

: 00:54:14

all for himself.

914

: 00:54:16

So that's where I think people need, need

to sort of look, look into that a little

915

: 00:54:21

bit deeper.

916

: 00:54:22

I think that there was something to that

rumor mill.

917

: 00:54:24

I think that I would be shocked if Tony

Fina wasn't on live next year.

918

: 00:54:30

I definitely think that that's a

possibility, but again, it's not like I've

919

: 00:54:34

talked to Tony and he's told me a hundred

percent.

920

: 00:54:36

I am.

921

: 00:54:37

I'm not doing what I do.

922

: 00:54:38

I am analyzing the landscape.

923

: 00:54:40

I am also listening to what people are

telling me and I'm reading the tea leaves

924

: 00:54:45

and I'm looking at sort of the way the

wind is blowing.

925

: 00:54:49

And that seems like that would make a ton

of sense to me that he's gonna go to live.

926

: 00:54:54

So again, we'll have to see how that plays

out here in the next few months, but I

927

: 00:55:01

think that that's something people need to

definitely look at.

928

: 00:55:04

And I hope it happens because I'm a Tony

Finau fan.

929

: 00:55:07

And I think he would be great on live.

930

: 00:55:08

He'd be amazing on.

931

: 00:55:12

Yeah, he's got the personality for it,

hasn't he?

932

: 00:55:15

I think that one of the interesting

questions that I've got then off the back

933

: 00:55:18

of that is, do you think that a way, I

don't want to say a way back to the PGA

934

: 00:55:24

Tour, but a way for the two to coexist and

a pathway for them, I don't want to say

935

: 00:55:33

pick and choose because I don't think it's

as simple as that, but a pathway for

936

: 00:55:36

players like Fianna and Ram, Ram in

particular, to continue to

937

: 00:55:41

build a legacy around the PGA tour.

938

: 00:55:43

Do you think someone like Ram going to

live?

939

: 00:55:47

Do you believe that it's contingent on

that pathway existing?

940

: 00:55:56

I think that's an important point.

941

: 00:55:57

I think it's something that is very sort

of critical to his decision making

942

: 00:56:03

process.

943

: 00:56:03

I don't think there's any question about

it.

944

: 00:56:06

And I think that that's the reason why if

things are changing with Jon Rahm, that's

945

: 00:56:12

the primary reason because, you know, this

saying that a lot of the PJ Tour players

946

: 00:56:18

have been saying about Liv Flair is that

you can't have your cake and eat it too.

947

: 00:56:23

Like I think that these players are gonna

have their cake and they're gonna be able

948

: 00:56:26

to eat it too.

949

: 00:56:27

So I think that is one hundred percent

because that's the best thing for the

950

: 00:56:30

health of the game.

951

: 00:56:31

Like the worst thing for the health of the

game would be continuing these bans on

952

: 00:56:36

these players that went to live that I

think are totally ridiculous if you are

953

: 00:56:42

trying to grow golf and make it as big as

it can be.

954

: 00:56:45

I just don't think that that's the way to

go.

955

: 00:56:47

So I think that the powers that be know

this, especially if they are gonna be

956

: 00:56:51

making the PJ tour, they're gonna be

creating this, what I call umbrella

957

: 00:56:56

corporation, AKA Newco, AKA PJ tour

enterprises.

958

: 00:57:00

Again, I'm calling it umbrella

corporation.

959

: 00:57:04

If you are gonna have this thing as a

for-profit entity, that changes everything

960

: 00:57:10

because now everything is about.

961

: 00:57:13

What are you doing to increase eyeballs?

962

: 00:57:16

What are you doing to increase interest in

the game?

963

: 00:57:20

What are you doing to increase money being

funneled to these tours, to the players?

964

: 00:57:27

Like all of those things are in play now.

965

: 00:57:30

And I think that the bans are one thing

that is just totally goes against, if

966

: 00:57:36

you're trying to be a for-profit company,

you just can't do that.

967

: 00:57:39

So I think that

968

: 00:57:43

the more the information about what global

love is gonna look like in the next couple

969

: 00:57:47

of years starts to leak out to the players

and things get a little bit closer to

970

: 00:57:50

being agreed upon with these, the merger

and everything that goes on.

971

: 00:57:55

Like if they get to this critical point

where everybody realizes, oh yeah, this is

972

: 00:58:01

definitely gonna happen, this is the way

it's gonna be.

973

: 00:58:04

Like I think that that's gonna open things

up.

974

: 00:58:06

And I do think that there, we're gonna see

virtually every single big name player

975

: 00:58:11

that's on the...

976

: 00:58:13

a PJ tour within two years, probably by

: 2026

977

: 00:58:20

They will almost all be playing in at

least a few live events.

978

: 00:58:24

I don't think there's any question about

it in my mind.

979

: 00:58:27

And that doesn't mean they can't continue

playing the PJ tour.

980

: 00:58:31

I think that they're all gonna be working

in lockstep.

981

: 00:58:34

I think it's all gonna be under one

umbrella.

982

: 00:58:35

Like, are they gonna be able to play in

every single event?

983

: 00:58:41

No, because there's going to be too many

events and nobody's going to want to play

984

: 00:58:45

35 events in the future.

985

: 00:58:47

So they are going to have to pick and

choose a little bit.

986

: 00:58:50

But I think that everybody has their

priorities.

987

: 00:58:53

I think that everybody has to figure that

out for themselves.

988

: 00:58:57

And for some people, those priorities are

going to align more with the sort of live

989

: 00:59:01

side and other players are going to align

more with the PGA Tour side like Rory and

990

: 00:59:07

Tyre.

991

: 00:59:09

Interesting stuff.

992

: 00:59:09

We will see what comes.

993

: 00:59:11

I think Finau is a shout and we'll see

what happens with Mr.

994

: 00:59:15

John Ram.

995

: 00:59:15

We're going to stick a pin in it.

996

: 00:59:16

Actually, my friend, we could talk about

this all day long, but we should probably

997

: 00:59:20

save a little bit for when Ben gets back.

998

: 00:59:23

So always good to chat, but I'll see you.

999

: 00:59:25

We'll see you as normal next week.

: 1000

00:59:27,014 --> 00:59:28,794

We'll be back into the rhythm next week.

: 1001

00:59:30,363 --> 00:59:31,043

That sounds good.

: 1002

00:59:31,043 --> 00:59:34,564

Yeah, we could literally talk about this

stuff for hours.

: 1003

00:59:34,804 --> 00:59:39,106

But again, I'm really excited about things

and excited to continue the conversation.

: 1004

00:59:39,106 --> 00:59:42,647

Excited to get Ben back in the mix next

week.

: 1005

00:59:42,647 --> 00:59:46,949

I know he's hanging out with his family in

Florida, sort of doing a whole US tour.

: 1006

00:59:48,050 --> 00:59:50,691

We're going to, before everything is said

and done, we're going to turn him into a

: 1007

00:59:50,691 --> 00:59:52,311

golf lover US.

: 1008

00:59:52,331 --> 00:59:54,692

We'll have to see how that fans out.

: 1009

00:59:56,293 --> 01:00:00,202

No, looking forward to getting him back

and fold next week.

: 1010

01:00:00,202 --> 01:00:03,023

We will be back with Ben next week.

: 1011

01:00:03,023 --> 01:00:06,585

And thank you, the other present listener,

for joining us this week.

: 1012

01:00:06,585 --> 01:00:09,287

It's always a pleasure if you have any

opinions on this.

: 1013

01:00:09,287 --> 01:00:12,388

Is John Rahm indeed going to head over to

the live camp?

: 1014

01:00:12,388 --> 01:00:12,949

What about Mr.

: 1015

01:00:12,949 --> 01:00:18,492

Fino himself, the Green Power Ranger, as

we saw on Twitter this week, is he heading

: 1016

01:00:18,492 --> 01:00:19,992

over to live as well?

: 1017

01:00:19,992 --> 01:00:24,715

Do let us know on Twitter at GLU Golf Club

and tell your friends if you enjoy this

: 1018

01:00:24,715 --> 01:00:29,457

podcast, that they can also tune in their

podcast app of choice or GLU.

: 1019

01:00:31,148 --> 01:00:34,341

Until next week, enjoy yourself, stay

cool, see you soon.

: 1020

01:00:34,341 --> 01:00:35,061

Bye bye.